http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/in-london-simple-isnt-always-so-simple/

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<small class="post-date" id="day_16">April 16, 2007,&nbsp; 10:31 am</small>

<h2 class="post-title"><a href="http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/in-london-simple-isnt-always-so-simple/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: In London, Simple Isn&#8217;t Always So Simple">In London, Simple Isn&#8217;t Always So Simple</a></h2>
<p class="post-author">By <span><a href="http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/author/kseverson/" title="Posts by Kim Severson">Kim Severson</a></span></p>
<p class="post-tags">Tags: <a href="http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/travel" rel="tag">Travel</a></p>
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<p>I do not hold the moldy piece of toast against London. It was served to me just after the long Easter weekend (and in Britain, the celebration lasts four days). The swank little North London cafe we were at for breakfast had perhaps found bread deliveries lacking during the break. And even though the bacon and tomato omelets were fine alternatives to the baked beans and bad bangers we had come across, apparently no one in the kitchen bothered to check the toast.</p>
<p>That’s the thing about food in London. For all the excitement about the city’s gastronomic revolution, the basics can still be bloody awful.</p>
<p>Certainly, there is no argument that the food in London has gotten much better. Organic offerings are everywhere now, and it’s quite fashionable to brighten old British recipes with seasonal ingredients and lighter techniques. The strength of the gastro-pub (a term my colleague Eric Asimov thinks is manufactured gobbledygook) seems unchallenged, with reinvigorated classic British dishes more popular than ever.</p>
<p>Even Gordon Ramsay is in the game. He opened The Narrow, his first pub, earlier in April, with dishes that include a rotating roast of the week, deviled kidneys on toast or braised Gloucester pig cheeks with bashed neeps. </p>
<p>At the highest end, where Ramsay also rules, London’s food is very good but frighteningly expensive. Prices are almost exactly double that of New York. (Imagine the humiliation when Brit after Brit gloats about the beating their credit cards take when they come to New York, quite a fashionable trip these days. (“The prices are just <em>superb</em>!”)</p>
<div class="standard190 left"><img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/dinersjournal/16london.jpg" alt="Borough Market"/><span class="caption">On weekends, visitors visit Borough Market for produce, meat or a meal. (Chris Warde-Jones for The New York Times)</span></div>
<p>Still and all &#8212; and thank you for staying with my rant for so long &#8212; we found a few lovely moments in our short spin through London. Perhaps they seemed so terrific in light of so much food that wasn’t, but still . . .</p>
<p>The top food moment came at Borough Market in South London, which is very much that city’s version of San Francisco’s Ferry Plaza Market. While the New York City Greenmarkets are very lovely reflections of season and place, the food theme does not extend into standing shops or restaurants as it does in London and San Francisco. That sort of critical mass makes the market feel much more a part of the city and brings a broader set of food shopping options. </p>
<p>Aside from a long and lovely conversation about the qualities of what the Brits call wild beef (from both Welsh Blacks and Devons), a highlight of the day was simply to stand in the cool damp of Neal’s Yard cheese shop, tasting and talking cheese. And I can’t say enough about the ewe’s milk yogurt flavored with elderflower they sell. <a id="more-223"></a></p>
<p>The other highlight was lunch at Fish! on Cathedral Street along an edge of the market. We didn’t eat inside the glass-walled restaurant, where simply prepared plates of fish approved by the Marine Stewardship Council are served from a sleek open kitchen. Better to stand out in the street at the fry station and receive a box of steaming hot cod in a crisp brown jacket and a crazy pile of fresh-cut chips. And can we mention the beauty of the mushy peas? This is one British food fetish, along with the back bacon sandwich, I can get behind.</p>
<p>For dinner, we headed to St John Bread &#038; Wine, the more casual, younger sister of chef Fergus Henderson’s St. John. It’s on the other side Spitalfields market, and has the same lean, industrial feel as St. John without the tablecloths. </p>
<p>The menu is a rolling list of pig parts, puddings, lamb roasts and some of the rarest beef I have seen in some time. You order small plates, so a beautifully chunky terrine of ham and parsley might come out alongside puréed chicken livers spread over country toast like peanut butter. I had the most astonishing quail, cooked first in a hot pan and basted with hot butter then finished in the oven. It came to the table on a white plate  —  nothing but juicy, crisp-skinned naked quail. Oh, and they bake  madeleines and berry pies to order, too.</p>
<p>Another surprise: Frontline, a restaurant near St. Mary’s hospital in Paddington that opened a few years ago in the first floor of a building that houses what is essentially a war correspondents club. The club promotes independent journalism and freedom of expression. The walls of the restaurant express that, with moving examples of photojournalism from Belfast in 1971, South Africa in 1994, Moscow in 1953 and present day images from Iraq. The effect, somehow, is smart and even a bit playful. </p>
<p>On white tablecloths, the food comes forth. Crispy shredded duck on watercress with pickled red onions, bubble and squeak cake (a modern twist on the traditional cabbage and potato dish) with a poached duck’s egg, the best sticky pudding I’ve ever had. </p>
<p>The wine list is a particular draw. Malcolm Gluck, the wine writer, created it, vowing “to wage war on dining out wine prices.” It starts with “a short list for wine list haters” and leads people through with helpful descriptions that encourage people who, for example, like Beaujolais to stick their necks out with a 2004 Largrein Weingut Niklas for about $40.</p>
<p>Looking back on all of this, it appears I did find some good things to eat in London after all. I spared you details about the bad stuff, but let me just say I left feeling like the London food revolution was a bit of an overstatement.</p>
<p>So I leave it to you, the smart, well-traveled readers of this blog: Does a marked improvement in really bad food make someplace a great food town? Is London overrated as a culinary destination? Is there more to London than mushy peas,  chicken tikka and moldy brown toast?</p>
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<h3 id="comments">62 comments so far...</h3> 
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17790" title="">11:42 am</a>
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  <p>I&#8217;m sorry you had a bad experience in London.  My husband is from there and we lived there for 4 years right after we got married.  While I will agree that the food can be hit or miss, that is the same EVERY WHERE you go.  I guess it&#8217;s all knowing where to go.  We generally stay away from the &#8220;trendy&#8221; places&#8230; always a disappointment. Our local pubs and curry houses were always the best bets.
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Mimipz5wjj</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17794">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17794" title="">11:56 am</a>
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  <p>Of course there&#8217;s more to London than mushy peas (which are actual a staple of Yorkshire, not London), chicken tikka and moldy brown toast.</p>
<p>As a native Brit, transplanted to the U.S. some 20 years ago, I agree that Britain has really bad food - but London is quite definitely a legitimate culinary destination.  Notable British chefs you need to look into include Gary Rhodes, and the original Martha Stewart - Delia Smith.  Gordon Ramsay may be our biggest British name export, but there are many more, better and friendlier than he!  </p>
<p>Next time you go back - do some homework on the BBC&#8217;s food site - get familiar with our experts and check out their restaurants in London - I&#8217;m confident you&#8217;ll be delighted with what they can do.
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Alison</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17798">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17798" title="">12:11 pm</a>
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  <p>A native Texan, I have been a resident of London for the past half-year.  I&#8217;ve found that British food (whether traditional or reinvigorated) generally is quite bland, and frequently is appallingly expensive.  I would recommend that visitors to London steer clear of British food entirely (with a few exceptions, such as cheese, smoked salmon, and beer), and instead explore the seemingly limitless &#8220;ethnic&#8221; food options, particularly those available at Middle Eastern, Indian, and Malaysian restaurants and/or markets.
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Russell Jones</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17801">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17801" title="">12:12 pm</a>
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  <p>Oh, you&#8217;re picking a fight with the Londoners who read the Times.  They&#8217;re convinced London outdoes New York in every respect, including food, and they will tell you over and over that it is better.  Not that they really care, right?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been to London quite often lately and the food  is vastly improved since I was a student there in the late eighties.  As a student I learned to eat a big breakfast and avoid everything else except Indian food and sandwiches for the remainder of the day, so bad was the food.  It&#8217;s altogether different in London now, and I think the food is on a par with New York.  Or, it may be that I can afford to eat in somewhat better London restaurants now.  New York, of course, is the better bargain.
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Joel</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17802">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17802" title="">12:17 pm</a>
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  <p>I feel sorry for this blogger&#8211;as an ex-New Yorker and longtime resident of London I can attest to the fact that the improvement in food here is no hype&#8211;and it occurs right across (or down) the board&#8211;from serious stylish to local ethnic (and the diversity of food available now is second to none, including New York). What the blog represents is the inanity of trying to reach culinary conclusions in a short stay. I could equally depress the blogger with tales of rotten (and very very expensive) meals in overhyped crowded noisy Manhattan restaurants, not to mention rat infested Taco Bells&#8211;but this would not be an accurate picture of food quality in Manhattan. Next trip to London perhaps the blogger will be armed with Harden&#8217;s Guide or perhaps the issue of Gourmet of a few year&#8217;s back, edited by the ex-food critic of the New York Times who explained in detail why she thought London now offered the most interesting food of any city she knew.
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Howard Schuman</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17804">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17804" title="">12:20 pm</a>
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  <p>Prices certainly are high in London&#8217;s best restaurants.  But I&#8217;ve found that if you wander a bit off the beaten path the restaurants you&#8217;ll find are delicious and, if not cheap, at least reasonable.  London has literally hundreds of great neighborhood Indian restaurants.  Marylebone High Street is one of my favorite spots for finding high quality, reasonably priced restaurants.  You can still get a wretched meal in London, but you&#8217;d have only yourself to blame if you do &#8212; there are lots of good places to choose from.<br />
My one ongoing disappointment with dining in London is breakfast.  For whatever reason the British like their eggs runny.  And I don&#8217;t mean a little bit runny, I mean egg soup.  At one hotel I sent my eggs back twice, then I finally gave up and ordered the continental breakfast!
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Michael Mathison</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17807">
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17807" title="">12:30 pm</a>
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  <p>I can only admire the forebearance of the blogger.  I have lived in London for upwards of 25 years, and my husband and I avoid eating out here, not only because of the beastly expense, but also because of the question of hygiene.  The tourists miss the stories on which restaurants are infested by roaches or mice or worse.  We often see the Innocent American tourists through the plate-glass windows of one famed London restaurant, chowing down on who knows what?  Best of luck to them!
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  <p><cite>— Posted by Sally Taylor</cite></p>
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  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17808" title="">12:37 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Maybe if more Americans ventured outside the hugely overpriced and overrated British capital, they would find that the food revolution is in fact taking place in the provinces.  Even if you can&#8217;t bear to leave the cities, try Manchester, Edinburgh, Leeds.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Kate</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17809">
  <div class="index">9.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17809" title="">12:38 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>As an American who has lived in London for almost about 18 months now, and have spent many years living in NYC, several years in Paris and even a short sting in Johannesburg, and Fortl Lauderdale, I completely understand what you mean by the simple things being not very good at all. After all the hype on the gastronomic revolution in London, as a newcomer, I am not so sure it has occurred&#8230; or better yet&#8230; maybe we are still in th emidst of the revolution? After all, Rome was not built in a day&#8230; these things take time.</p>
<p>But in all th eplaces I have lived in and travelled to, I think the best slice of local culture is that of its basic, every-day food offering. Be it a cup of coffee, a bagel, street tacos, a deli sandwich, a curry, arepas, tapas, grilled kabpobs from the street cart and even NYC hot dogs&#8230; these edible morsels of local flare are the defining flavors of an entire culture. Even the hand-made deli sandwich from NYC has heart and the person behind the counter take pride in what they are serving. </p>
<p>But, in my opinion, one of the most pittiful things in the world to see is the serving of cheap food. By cheap food, I do not mean inexpensive, literally; I mean food that is thrown together without any pride or heart or soul put in to it. Why is it actually so hard to find a very good traditional English fry-up? The majority of places in London serve what looks and tastes like frozen or canned products. </p>
<p>I could go on and on about complaints, but there is good food here&#8230; unfortunately, the revolution has not spread downward from the more culinarily talented chefs to the Mom-n-Pop shops&#8230; where it should have been to begin with. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, cheaply prepared food, done with short-cuts, is insulting to the diner, to the food itself, and to the local culture&#8230; and on this scale seen in London it should be considered a major consipracy!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Josh</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17810">
  <div class="index">10.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17810" title="">12:44 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Will England never outgrow its completely unfair reputation as a gastronomic wasteland?  It hasn&#8217;t been true for decades, and London has been on par with New York and Paris as a food capital of the world for many years now.  Yet Americans love to visit London, and England in general, with a preconceived notion of what food there is supposed to be like, then use whatever thin evidence they can find to reinforce their original idea.</p>
<p>I would have liked to here more about the medicority Ms. Severson experienced, since she only describes having had one moldy piece of toast, then declares that &#8220;the London food revolution (is) a bit of an overstatement.&#8221;  This is akin to getting mugged in midtown Manhattan, then declaring that New York is a terrifying hellscape.  What about London&#8217;s incredible range of Indian and Chinese food that trumps anything here?  I went to what could be considered a neighborhood Chinese restaurant there a few weeks ago and the meal was better than anything I&#8217;ve had in NYC&#8217;s Chinatown.  </p>
<p>What about the superior fruit you can find all over London?  What about the greasy glory of fish and chips?  What about the endless choices of quality French and Italian fare?  Yes, the prices are ridiculous&#8211;no argument there.  But the food itself is unfairly besmirched here.  I have eaten in London a good deal and don&#8217;t recall ever getting bad basic ingredients.  I think Ms. Severson was going to the wrong restaurants.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Benjamin Hart</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17811">
  <div class="index">11.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17811" title="">12:52 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>London has always offered up a variety of cuisine - traditional wafer thin lamb roast at dingy boarding houses amid potatoes and gravy along with Italian rizottos and bolognese and Indian curries at every corner, with some fresh fish and chips thrown in, at intervals, in their famous newspaper wrappings.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the joy of London, the eclectic and the old stuff, and from the sounds of your experience, it hasn&#8217;t changed much!  </p>
<p>Even though it&#8217;s been a while, I do miss the opportunity to easily find, in a city block, a wonderful apple strudel, European style, flaky pastry encasing the tangiest, tastiest, probably Granny Smith apples, the whole thing doused with icing sugar.  </p>
<p>I will probably spend the rest of my days, in strange cities all over the world, trying to duplicate this unique experience of old and new, traditional and international cuisine jostling for space on the streets of London.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Carol McFarlane</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17812">
  <div class="index">12.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17812" title="">12:59 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>In London, everybody talks about a &#8220;good curry&#8221;, but try finding one.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by William S.</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17813">
  <div class="index">13.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17813" title="">1:04 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>your stating that &#8220;[the] London food revolution was a bit of an overstatement&#8221; is as true, though people who complained the &#8220;food was god-aweful&#8221; even 10 years ago is also an overstatement. i would hate to see tourists and business travelers rate NYC based on dining in Midtown or Chelsea – big cities are always have a mix of good and bad. The problem with london is 2-fold: too expensive and lack of access. There simply are not enough good or affordable restaurants open late enough to have a casual dining experience. In this respect, NYC and Tokyo are still the kings of dining out. One thing London does have over NYC is delicious ready made meals from the supermarkets. These are affordable but one needs a hotel with a microwave.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by matthew w</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17814">
  <div class="index">14.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17814" title="">1:07 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>My dining experiences in London have been rather limited, but a couple of observations: First,you are absolutely right about Borough Market. The place is breathtaking. If U.S. Customs weren&#8217;t an issue, any number of things, including goose fat, would have found its way home with me. I love the Union Square Greenmarket, but Borough Market is on another level altogether. Second, despite all of the claims about the arrival of really good chocolate in NYC, what I&#8217;ve seen in London is a step beyond, and appears still to be developing. Restaurant fare in the low and medium range hasn&#8217;t impressed me as much.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Steve</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17815">
  <div class="index">15.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17815" title="">1:10 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>There is more&#8230;and there is less.  Since there is no &#8220;food&#8221; culture in England, this food/restaurant revolution feels grafted on&#8230;like Roman customs on Saxon roots.  Some take&#8230;and some don&#8217;t.  For my money&#8230;and it would be most of it&#8230;the best food in London is at Wilton&#8217;s.  It is, simply, England.  Magnificent oysters&#8230;gorgeous salmon and lobster&#8230;beef, pheasant, grouse&#8230;cheeses&#8230;berries&#8230;and a summer pudding to die for&#8230;and a wine list of the French classics.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Anne</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17817">
  <div class="index">16.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17817" title="">1:23 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Yes.  Considering where London was 10 years ago, &#8216;revolution&#8217; is not an overstatement to describe the new spirit of culinary adventurism and imagination.  As the new breed of restaurants and &#8216;gastropubs&#8217; raise the level of expectation (I agree wholeheartedly, Fish! is great), more established places will raise their game.  Those who don&#8217;t will end up catering to a different clientele. </p>
<p>There is a huge diversity of food culture.  I&#8217;ve eaten in restaurants that serve cuisine from Morocco, Turkey, Egypt, Ethiopia, the Caribbean (and so on).  I have also eaten REALLY great food from many regions of India.</p>
<p>Having eaten my share in New York, Chicago and LA, I think London is easily comparable to those towns.  The great is great, there is a constantly shifting middle ground and the low end is often very, very bad.  I have been served mediocre food in &#8216;good&#8217; restaurants in all these places.</p>
<p>My big gripe with London is the cost.  Though, with exchange rates and 17.5%  VAT (tax), I suppose that shouldn&#8217;t surprise me.</p>
<p>Is there more to London than chicken tikka?  Well, is there more to New York than Pizza, Texas-style steakhouses and soggy Hot Dogs?  Of course there is so enough with the London-bashing.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Ben Furey</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17818">
  <div class="index">17.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17818" title="">1:24 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I&#8217;ve been living in London for eight years with a year and a half off in Washington and Chicago. I&#8217;ve been let down by the basics Stateside (moldy toast world probably never happen, but I&#8217;ve had my share of oversized tasteless portions). The FDA also prevents culinary experiences available to Brits because of excessive regulation (beef can&#8217;t be hung past a certain time, certain cheeses can&#8217;t be aged as the should be and so on.) That being said, it&#8217;s also fair to say that the &#8220;London food revolution&#8221; happened in New York a decade ago.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Grimes</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17820">
  <div class="index">18.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17820" title="">1:30 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Moldy bread might not be served at American restaurants. But how much does this have to do with the all the preservatives in the food? I say bring on the mold.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by GB</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17829">
  <div class="index">19.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17829" title="">1:57 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I have lived in London for 9 years.<br />
I am originally from Toronto and my husband is from Italy. We both work in the hospitality industry (he is a chef). We are both well travelled and are always on the lookout for great places to eat on out travels. I cannot begin to tell you how overated a food city London is! It is a joke!!! The quality of food preperation, ingredients and overall availability of half decent meals in this town is still way below average. I can count on my right hand places that I deem worthy of spending my money in. When I go to Toronto, New York or Italy I always come home at least 15 pounds heavier!!! That is because I am always starving for something that is so difficult to get here- a half decent meal!!!! And don&#8217;t get me started about the supermarkets here- they are truly horrible and uninspiring- I have often stood at my local Sainsburys and thought that the offerings were not much better than Communist-era Russia!!! Waitrose has the right idea but they still have a long way to go!!! I can&#8217;t wait until Whole Foods opens- it will be a god send!!!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Jenni</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17834">
  <div class="index">20.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17834" title="">2:11 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Can anyone explain the Brits&#8217; obsession with offal, pig offal specifically? Pig cheeks, pig&#8217;s head (brain included?), etc. I&#8217;ve heard of and tried pig ears in Spain (expected cartilage chewiness &#8211;no seconds for me, thanks); pig&#8217;s feet stew &#8211;popular Latin American dish, passable; pig&#8217;s tail; blood sausage (tasty!); tripe, etc.<br />
However, it seems that pig&#8217;s head specifically seems to be a very British specialty from what I&#8217;ve heard and read. Can anyone recommend a decent and affordable place to have this dish in London?
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by galagher</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17839">
  <div class="index">21.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17839" title="">2:34 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>a few additions from another american expat in London:</p>
<p>Did you know that Borough Market is under threat?  It will be dramatically changed by expansion of the rail lines above it: <a href="http://www.sabmac.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">www.sabmac.co.uk/</a>  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad the writer mentioned sustainable fish with a MSC stamp of approval, but then she went on to revel in COD?  It&#8217;s basically extinct in most parts of the world.  We went to dinner at Fish! with a friend who just got a new job in fish conservation biology.  Most of the stuff on the menu is not sustainable - don&#8217;t kid yourself. The waiters didn&#8217;t have important information at hand about the sources of the fish.  Greenwash.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by EM</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17843">
  <div class="index">22.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17843" title="">2:54 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Both NYC and London host some great restaurants; the big advantage of NYC is the opportunity to find cheap, decent food quite easily. In London, the closest thing to cheap, decent food would be an Indian restaurant. There are some attempts to create quality fast-food [&#8217;Wagamama&#8217; and &#8216;Basuba&#8217;, for example], but they are few and mediocre. The street food in London is appalling: the fish &amp; chips, the cheap pizzas, the so-called &#8220;gormet&#8221; sandwich shops&#8230;so London is really for the rich.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by TeaCake</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17845">
  <div class="index">23.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17845" title="">2:59 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I lived in London for 32 years and three years ago moved to the south of France.  I can&#8217;t tell you how much the quality of our restaurant dining has increased since we swopped British food for French.  There is simply no comparison.  My husband and I laugh when we read that London is the new gastronomic capital of Europe. The food here is fresher, less expensive, less hyped and consequently far more enjoyable.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Linda Hsu</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17846">
  <div class="index">24.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17846" title="">3:01 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I recall the gushy 2005 cover of Gourmet proclaiming London as &#8220;The Best Place to Eat in the World Right Now.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not sure I&#8217;d totally agreed, but after eating around town, I give kudos to St. John&#8217;s - especially the devilled kidneys and the roast bone marrow and parsley salad. J. Sheekey was a delight; we had a wonderful dinner at The Anchor &amp; Hope gastropub, and spent a delightful afternoon at Sweetings on Queen Victoria street. (Black Velvets and oysters!) Wish I could remember the name of the Turkish restaurant suggested to us  staffers at St. John&#8217;s - maybe Angel Mangel (??)
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by trish</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17849">
  <div class="index">25.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17849" title="">3:09 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>come along you guys&#8230; yes i am from london and yes i still live in london but if you cannot find good food here the white stick is in order&#8230;i cannot say it is better than ny&#8230;i dont remember anything i have eaten there but i did not try to hard either&#8230; but trust me you can find great food here and i still get a buzz from finding a new haunt now&#8230;<br />
rgds<br />
pb
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by philip burgoyne</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17851">
  <div class="index">26.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17851" title="">3:16 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>The sad thing is, all anyone from London will say upon reading this is:  &#8220;It&#8217;s MOULDY not moldy you ignorant Americans!&#8221;  They don&#8217;t demand good food or good service, so they don&#8217;t get it.  The food &#8220;revolution&#8221; in London is completely overrated but long overdue.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by a former expat</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17852">
  <div class="index">27.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17852" title="">3:17 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I agree with the basic tone of many of the above posts: there&#8217;s some great food in London (where I&#8217;ve lived for 12 years) and some awful food, and a lot in between.  And there&#8217;s some great food in NY (where I lived for 10 years) and some awful food and - guess what? - a lot in between.  The attempts at excellence and the joy of discussing it in both places can only be a good thing, and I don&#8217;t think anyone can ever reach a definitive conclusion, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
<p>One thing though (and yes, I&#8217;ve been there) - takes some doing to bash London and opt for&#8230;Toronto??
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Christine</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17855">
  <div class="index">28.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17855" title="">3:27 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Jenni,</p>
<p>You should try going to Marks and Spencer. I lived in London for a year and a half and was never dissppointed with their quality.</p>
<p>As for finding a good curry, try going to Brick Lane. It&#8217;s affordable there!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Lauren S.</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17856">
  <div class="index">29.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17856" title="">3:29 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I lived in London for about 4 years and learned where to go for solid basic fare, but compared to new york it was very expensive and not as good as the neighborhood bistros in new york or brooklyn where i live now and thoroughly enjoy all the neighborhood spots that have been banished from manhattan by high rents. </p>
<p>Probably the sad truth is that the culinary revolution in London just brings it on par with New York or other cities after years of neglect. I find English food to be delicious when prepared properly, but that is ridiculously hard to find in England. And in the typical English self-deprecating manner they sought influence from continental European cuisine rather than focusing on their own traditional foods. So now you can get high-fangled &#8220;peasant&#8221; Italian food, but not a great Sunday roast in a pub.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by pietro</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17859">
  <div class="index">30.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17859" title="">3:44 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I understand after reading everyone&#8217;s comments that restaurant prices are rediculously high in London.  Can anyone tell me why?
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by William Kandel</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17866">
  <div class="index">31.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17866" title="">4:06 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>In London, IT IS simple, take the Eurostar, and have a dinner in Paris&#8230; Sorry, I am a Parisian
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Gerard</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17871">
  <div class="index">32.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17871" title="">4:19 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I was a resident of London and am now an occasional visitor. When I do come here, I stay very near my old Kensington neighborhood, hard to break away. The reason is the local restaurants.</p>
<p>They are not Gordon Ramsay, Jamie Oliver or any of the other of this phony pantheon of chefs. These are real people who have great local restaurants that serve wonderful meals. The owners and chefs treat their long-time patrons as well as newcomers with the same respect such as I witnessed tonight in Chez Patrick where I just ate alone and where I will return tomorrow with guests.</p>
<p>It is no different in London than it is in Brooklyn Heights, the Upper East Side or even New Jersey or Connecticut. Good food, great atmosphere and a sense that you are made to feel that you belong and are appreciated is what the real dining experience is all about.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Michael</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17878">
  <div class="index">33.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17878" title="">4:41 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I&#8217;ve been in a variety of restaurants in and outside of London for 14 years.  The prices have always been extortionate and while the food you get at a top rated restaurant is very good (and sometimes excellent) I always try to avoid the bottom tier. A couple of years ago I read an article in the UK press that (I think it was 2005)there were 5 million cases of reported food poisoning &#8212; this in a country where the total population is about 55million to 60million! That<br />
was reported cases! I contribute 3 personal incidents of food poisoning not in those statistics. I don&#8217;t believe the hygiene in British restaurants is particularly well managed. My food poisoning experiences will always stay with me (in memory as the food itself decided to leave my body involuntarily)&#8211; especially the longest ride from Norwich to London where I &#8220;visited&#8221; the loo 7 times even when there was nothing left. I finally started getting resuscitation the following day when my first food was a warm, nourishing bowl of crabmeat and corn soup at one the very excellent Chinese restaurants in China town.</p>
<p>Joe
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Joseph Kolodney</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17886">
  <div class="index">34.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17886" title="">4:59 pm</a>
    </div>
  
  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>The best English food is found in private homes, not restaurants, even in London. In homes, the cooking is usually quite good.</p>
<p>The best restaurant food in London is not English but &#8220;ethnic&#8221; such as Indian, Italian, even French.</p>
<p>London cannot be compared to New York in cuisine.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by John</cite></p>
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</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17888">
  <div class="index">35.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17888" title="">5:00 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I have just 2 words about what to eat in London that can be counted on to be good&#8230;Indian food.  From a culinary standpoint the only other reason I can think of going is for the ales,stouts, porters, and other lovely refreshment along the same lines.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Helen H. Silk</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17894">
  <div class="index">36.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17894" title="">5:29 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>OK. I&#8217;ve been dating a londoner for the past four years and we do a lot of eating out in London and New York (where I live). This is my opinion: eating out in New York is so so so much more affordable, yes, but London has some fantastic restaurants. My favorites are Sally Clarke&#8217;s, Moro, St. John, Anchor and Hope, amazingly spicy szechuan Bar Shu, Royal China for dim sum, Lucky 7. It&#8217;s a shame there&#8217;s no decent well-priced Japanese food is my main caveat. Burrough market if much more fun than the Greenmarket. I think the food in London is great - and it&#8217;s often easier to get a res there than in New York with our obsessive go-to-the-hip-new-restaurant culture. Londoners eat in much more often - and with great results: the quality of the dairy and the meat is higher than it is here and there is more local produce year-round because of the milder climate, making cooking and entertaining at home a real pleasure.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Johanna</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17898">
  <div class="index">37.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17898" title="">5:41 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>It&#8217;s been a year since I was in London and I so want to go back&#8211;although so many of the restaurants I loved years ago have disappeared, like Plummer&#8217;s (ah, that steak &amp; kidney pie) near Covent Garden and the Trattoria in the West End that featured such delicious roasted asparagus. The problem is the same as in New York City&#8211;you find a great little restaurant and become fond of particular items, and then it vanishes and you never find those dishes again&#8211;at least not of that quality and at that price.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Carol Robinson</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17901">
  <div class="index">38.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17901" title="">5:57 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Although I now live in Los Angeles (where almost everyone wants to be!)forty years ago the same thing was being said, but there was good food to be found in London and elsewhere - who can forget the glories of Mirabelle in its heyday (and not the scaled down version of today), Le Caprice when Mario was there, Sheekey&#8217;s before it was tarted up and part of a small chain? The Savoy Grill, Prunier, Simpsons and on and on. Good Indian cooking could be found as well as Chinese, and one of the best Hungarian restaurants is still with us today, The Gay Hussar. London has always had its share of fine cooking, whereas New York was a latecomer; when I first visited in 1964, I was warned by those who had visited the United States that the food was &#8220;very bland&#8221;. It has improved since. Unfortunately, Britain is now in a wash of limp-wristed cookery where the chef chooses everything and which is passed off as &#8220;fine dining&#8221; ; years ago it would have been described as &#8220;table d&#8217;hote&#8221;, with a price to match. Like all revolutions, it will pass. Frankly I&#8217;d rather have Rules than Ramsey!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by David Cunard</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17909">
  <div class="index">39.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17909" title="">6:07 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Joseph - where did you read that about 5m cases of food poisoning? What a great, if fictional, mental image it makes!</p>
<p>Two ancient stories leapt to mind of NY dining (which, I should point out again, I love) - my parents visited me in Manhattan in the late 80s and, ever keen to show them what a sophisticated NY girl I&#8217;d become, I took them out for dinner twice.  Once was to a restaurant called the Paris Commune which I thought would count as &#8216;nice&#8217; - where we watched cockroaches (armies of them!) skitter up and down the wall in the candlelight, and the second night was to a Japanese restaurant I loved on Irving Place, where we proceeded to watch a rat gamboling - I&#8217;m not kidding, there&#8217;s no other word for it - in a planter holding a tree just outside our window. Okay, it was *outside*, but didn&#8217;t do wonders for an appetite.  My mother was not impressed with my Manhattan savoir-faire (which wasn&#8217;t, of course, very impressive).  Point is, you can go wrong wherever in the world you are.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m going to have to do a straw poll of my colleagues to find the missing 5 million food poisonees.  We must have reams of near-food-death stories around here! Crazy.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Christine</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17911">
  <div class="index">40.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17911" title="">6:40 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Mr Cunard, I was interested in much of what you had to say until I hit &#8216;limp-wristed&#8217; - what&#8217;s that about?? Those Le Creuset pots are heavy, I agree, and I feel the need to toughen up my own wrist muscles every time I use them.  That&#8217;s what you meant, I feel certain, because nothing else is even remotely relevant. Bon appetit.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Girl29</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17915">
  <div class="index">41.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17915" title="">6:51 pm</a>
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  <p>I recently had brunch a lovely brunch in Fulham, only to be dismayed by the mold on my toast.  No long weekend excuse, when I showed the waitress, she brought me a new piece, and yes, it too had mold on it (sadly, far more so than the first piece)&#8230;.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Soraya</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17917">
  <div class="index">42.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17917" title="">6:55 pm</a>
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  <p>Oh to be in London now rather than at my desk – the 4 failsafe food options are:  shawarma, fish and chips, Indo/Pak, and a pint of bitter. Yes, bitter IS a food, absolutely!  Cheers.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by J. Oldenkamp</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17921">
  <div class="index">43.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17921" title="">7:12 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>One of the things I found annoying about the so-called &#8220;food revolution&#8221; in London was that it didn&#8217;t change how food was prepared as much as it changed the cost and exclusivity of the ingredients. No more pepper: now it&#8217;s hand-picked Muntok white peppercorns ground by Shaolin monks using 1,500-year-old grinders handed down through the generations. No more pork: now it&#8217;s apricot-fed pork from pigs raised by the seaside and slaughtered under the full moon.</p>
<p>Quite frankly this trend, emphasizing the ingredients over the finished product, is a little precious. It also has no bearing on the quality of the food. Moldy bread doesn&#8217;t taste any better with fresh butter rushed from Brittany every morning than it does with everyday quality butter. Three-day-old fish is three-day-old fish, whether it&#8217;s Patagonian toothfish or just plain old cod. </p>
<p>I see this a bit in other cities too, and often even in books by famous chefs. It&#8217;s difficult for me to believe that the Parmigiano-Reggiano from one specific dairy is worth the time and expense it would cost me to bring it in. </p>
<p>Personally, I blame menu porn. Some chefs and restaurant operators are more interested in selling their product on the menu than they are in creating the product itself. These fancy ingredients look wonderful when listed, but without a corresponding emphasis on freshness and the chef&#8217;s skill it&#8217;s nothing but marketing. Menu porn is also bad for business, as it discourages repeat visits; nobody will remember what the menu said when they choose their next restaurant meal, but they&#8217;ll remember the food itself.</p>
<p>Incidentally, this is one reason why I love Mark Bittman&#8217;s &#8216;The Minimalist&#8217;. He doesn&#8217;t go on and on and on about the ingredients; he goes on and on about the food. His bread is already a staple in our house (although it did need an extra cup of flour!).
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Charlene</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17925">
  <div class="index">44.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17925" title="">7:21 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Moving to London after living in New York and California was an appaling culinary experience for me and my family. The problem is, what tastes good to an American/European will simply not taste good to a Brit; that&#8217;s why the country is virtually devoid of any tasty food which is so abundant anywhere in the US/continental europe. I just spent a weekend on a continent; my family and I savoured steaks, creamy sauces and delicious desserts knowing full well our next great meal will be on our next trip outside UK. In 8 months in the UK we found 1 decent (not great) Thai place. The rest of about 200 places we went to ranged between mediocre and awful, and we were at all times surrounded by the English delighting at food that only can be described as awful.<br />
One can get used to paying 2-3 times more for a meal; getting used to food with a foul taste or without taste whatsoever, that might be tougher.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Mike</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17935">
  <div class="index">45.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17935" title="">7:57 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>GB makes an excellent point! Eating out in London is certainly more expensive than New York, and not deservedly so, but the quality of food in grocery stores is so much higher. The sheer quantity of preservatives in virtually all American food (unless you opt for expensive organic stuff) makes eating in far less enjoyable than in England. Having lived in both cities, I&#8217;d far rather cook my own food from mid-range supermarkets in London than in New York. Sainsbury&#8217;s beats D&#8217;Agostino&#8217;s any day - and M&amp;S beats anything!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Rachel</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17938">
  <div class="index">46.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17938" title="">7:58 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>sorry, hate to intrude here, as someone who doesn&#8217;t hate london - london offers really cheap fantastic ethnic food.  i remember a 7 or 8 different mini-portion vegetarian indian meal in East Ham particularly, for about 3 or 4 pounds, or, what, $1000 given the current exchange rate.  Also, anyone insulting fish and chips will be battered, and placed into boiling oil, then served to people with infinately more taste than themselves.</p>
<p>That is all
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by steffaction</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17944">
  <div class="index">47.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17944" title="">8:32 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>About 4-years ago I lived in Dublin for a long-while and went to London often on business. What stands out in my mind was how much better &#8220;English&#8221; food was in Dublin than London. More care in preparation, ingredients, attention to detail, etc.  Irish beef is incredible. Compared to middling neighborhood places in Dublin, Paris, NY or many other places London suffers. Its Indian, Chinese, Italian - but never English.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Fred</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17945">
  <div class="index">48.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17945" title="">8:46 pm</a>
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  <p>The food in London is atrocious.  I live in Manhattan but have been to London over 15 times, each time with the hope that I will &#8220;discover&#8221; this great food that all the people from London keep talking about.  Have referred to guides, recommendations from friends, the whole lot, and every time I come back disappointed.  Not only is it overpriced, it tastes like crap.  Not to mention these are at expensive and inexpensive restaurants alike.  Even the &#8220;famous&#8221; curry pales in comparison to some of the better Indian joints in NY like Bukhara and the like.  Bottom line: when it comes to food, NY demolishes London.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Phil</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17947">
  <div class="index">49.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17947" title="">9:00 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>As some of you have said, there are good and bad restaurants everywhere.  I had one of my worst meals ever in Paris!  For the typical American traveler spending only a few days in London, a food guide is essential.  And there are no shortage of these.  So if you are eating bad food in London, more fool you!!  As to price, there’s no doubt London is expensive, and not just for food.  And for the American traveler, the exchange rate doesn’t help.  But stop whining! – you only have to put up with these prices for a few days.  Having to import food and pay high gas prices clearly puts Britain at a disadvantage compared to America.  London may not be comparable to New York in terms of reasonable affordable food, but if – as we are told – higher gas prices do result in higher food prices, then so be it.  I’d rather pay more for my food and see the average person showing real concern about fuel efficient vehicles any day.  Come on America, quit whining about British food, what are you going to do about the environment?</p>
<p>Vivienne
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Vivienne Jary</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17948">
  <div class="index">50.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17948" title="">9:03 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Having lived for many years in London, what fustrated me the most about the food was the hype. Every time a new bistro opened in Kensington, the Daily Mail declared it superior to anything that could be found in Paris. Please! </p>
<p>I always felt that London dining promised more than was delivered. People have spoken enough about the prices, so there is no need to comment on that. But, nothwithstanding the improvements over the last 15 years, at any level from haute cuisine, to neighborhood restaurants, London is inferior to New York, Paris, Northern Italy, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and any number of other destinations. Does anybody really think that a Gordon Ramsey establishment should be mentioned in the same sentence as one of Daniel Boulud? </p>
<p>The two types of ethnic cuisine where London excels are Indian and Middle Eastern, although I have never understood the claims for Chinese food in London.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Henry</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17965">
  <div class="index">51.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17965" title="">10:29 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Good call John (No. 34 at 4:59); and that&#8217;s why Paris is nowhere.  NYC is nowhere too when compared to Wilton&#8217;s, St. John, Arbutus, Neal&#8217;s Yard when it comes to quality and value.  But pastrami, dogs and sturgeon, that&#8217;s why we have Carnegie, the umbrella rooms and Papaya King, and Barney Greengrass.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by LA Girl</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-17976">
  <div class="index">52.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 16th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-17976" title="">11:33 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>the first time i was in oxford, about 16 years ago, i got a serious case of food poisoning because i ate a spoiled sausage roll.  i&#8217;d been in england for a couple of weeks at that point, and was so accustomed how bad all the food was that it didn&#8217;t occur to me that there was anything ELSE wrong with it.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by cybercita</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18010">
  <div class="index">53.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18010" title="">3:00 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>As the editor of <a href="http://www.london-eating.co.uk" rel="nofollow">www.london-eating.co.uk</a> I might be accused of bias (actually I would prefer to be editor of the Paris equivalent!), but anyway the fact is London is large and there&#8217;s a lot going on food wise and it&#8217;s changing every week. I must have eaten in over 200 London restaurants in the last three years. Most were hits, some were misses. Some were blindingly expensive, some were cheap. Quite frankly you can&#8217;t make any sort of generalisation except to say read the guides, one in particular of course, and do some homework and stay away from the tourist trap areas.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Nick</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18039">
  <div class="index">54.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18039" title="">6:03 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>To the commenter above who wanted to know where to find a good curry in London:</p>
<p>Bengal Lancer, Kentish Town<br />
Chutney Mary, Chelsea<br />
Tamarind, Mayfair<br />
Masala Zone, Soho (good value)
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Ian Douglas</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18071">
  <div class="index">55.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18071" title="">9:14 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Unless you are rich, eating in London is not close to New York or Paris. At the 10-20 pound level, there is nothing but hype.(except Indian Food).For example, A guy at a really good wine store recommended A Place called the Windsor Castle in Notting Hill for its great simple pub food. What I got was worse than my college cafeteria . Frozen New Zealand mussels that were as tough as leather, in a disgusting 1960&#8217;s style &#8220;curry&#8221; sauce, and undercooked french fries.I can repeat this experience over and over.  There are some good gastro pubs, but the mid price food scene is strictly  mediocre there. There is no real comparison. They have the good ingredients, but still dont know how to put them together to make something great. The Baked goods at cafes are especially sad. I did eat at ONE place that didn&#8217;t suck the money out of my wallett and was excellent; the duke of Cambridge Organic Pub.<br />
Also the person who said London Chinese food is superior to New york has GOT to be Joking.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by jason carey</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18073">
  <div class="index">56.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18073" title="">9:17 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Yes, some of the best restaurants in the world are in London, but the real issue are the minimum standards that Londoners are willing to tolerate: there aren&#8217;t any (yes, even compared to stateside in the original Fast Food Nation). This is why Londoners get so mystified when people point out that the food is bad: they don&#8217;t realize it and simply think that it&#8217;s normal. </p>
<p>I do agree with the poster that said that people need to get out of London to get better English food&#8211; some of those &#8220;bland&#8221; English dishes taste much better when actually prepared correctly outside of London.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Twisted Tidings</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18076">
  <div class="index">57.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18076" title="">9:46 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I am always amazed by the amount of tourists I hear as they walk down Oxford Street bleating, &#8220;There&#8217;s nowhere to eat here!&#8221; All they have to do is turn to their right into Soho or their left into Fitzrovia and they will find an abundance of expensive and cheap and in between restaurants from all four quarters of the world. Just use your eyes and feet and explore! London is filled with great places to eat that will break or make your wallet depending on how flush you feel.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Planethalder</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18080">
  <div class="index">58.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18080" title="">10:02 am</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Severson ends on a great point: &#8220;Does a marked improvement in really bad food make someplace a great food town?&#8221;  Does the improved student who goes from a &#8220;D&#8221; to a B&#8221; deserve the accolades that paris and NYC rightfully deserve? Of course not. Top to bottom, Ramsay down to the corner stall, it does not come close to matching NYC (and that doesn&#8217;t begin to account for the exchange rate). That said, what i would give to have  St. John&#8217;s somehwere within a hundred miles of me, and Neal&#8217;s Yard down the street.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by runningdog33</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18101">
  <div class="index">59.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18101" title="">12:29 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>Great post. Love London. Can&#8217;t wait to get back!
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by adam</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18111">
  <div class="index">60.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18111" title="">1:15 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>The very best restaurants in London can match the very best restaurants in NYC (or anywhere in the world) but the average level of restaurant dining is considerably lower. It is only fairly recently that the UK has developed a restaurant culture. The average New Yorker will eat out for the majority of his or her meals. Many Manhattanites have never cooked in their tiny kitchens. The average Londoner will dine out once or twice a week. Many older or provincial folk still consider a restaurant meal to be an occasional treat. The culinary revolution is an undoubted fact but is largely confined to the metropolitan middle classes. The majority of Britons eat at home every night. Any New Yorker struggling to find an appealing, reasonably priced restaurant in London will find kindredship in a Londoner trying to find an appealing, reasonably priced grocery store in New York - no doubt they exist but you need the assistance of a guide, either a book or a local. It is sheer folly when paying a fortune to stay in a London hotel not to spare a further $20 for a decent guidebook (the Time Out restaurant guide is probably the best). It breaks my heart when in London to see tourists eating in overpriced steakhouses on Oxford Street or Shaftsbury Avenue just yards away from the excellent restaurants of Soho and Fitzrovia. Those straying outside London, however, would be advised to bring sandwiches.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Terwiliger</cite></p>
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<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18113">
  <div class="index">61.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18113" title="">1:17 pm</a>
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  <div class="comment">
     
  <p>I live in Manhattan and travel to London roughly 10 times a year for business on a fairly liberal expense account, and have tried most of the a large number of the top tables.  At the high end, London has a handful of restaurants that would be well regarded in any city of the world - I&#8217;d say Ramsey (Hospital Road), Locanda Locatelli, China Tang (at least the Beijing Duck), Fat Duck, St. John, and Gallery stand out.  On the other hand, there are alot of places that get oohs and ahhs out of my British Clients that are not that good and beyond overpriced - Hakkasan, Zuma, The Savoy Grill, both Nobu&#8217;s (becoming an upscale Benihana IMHO), all of the Marco Pierre White places, all of the Conran places.  Meanwhile, NYC has a hundred different places, all of which would be a top 10 restaurant in London.</p>
<p>As an aside, the choices for lunch in the &#8220;city&#8221; are appalling - Pret a Manger?  Where is this bounty of ethnic food I keep hearing about?  Give me a NYC slice any day.</p>
<p>Some last observations: </p>
<p>The average quality of a meal in Italy may be the highest in the world.  Almost anywhere in the country, perhaps excluding Venice, even the plainest establishment will serve you a well prepared meal - it is hard to find truly bad food.  (That said, I don&#8217;t think that the top restaurants in Milan or Rome are quite on the same level of sheer genius as a Pierre Gagniere in Paris or Jean-Georges here in Manhattan.) In Paris and NYC you can certainly find bad food, but usually you get what you pay for.  In Britain, you can get surprisingly bad food at any time, and at any price.
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by BofP</cite></p>
   </div>
</li>


<li class="clearfix" id="comment-18114">
  <div class="index">62.</div>
  <div class="commentmetadata">
  April 17th,<br>
  2007<br>
  <a href="#comment-18114" title="">1:31 pm</a>
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  <p>I lived in London for over 8 years, now in NY for nearly three. Obviously, there are great restaurants in both places. But in terms of affordability, accessibility and average quality across all price ranges, NY wins hands down. And let’s not start talking about the service……
</p>
  <p><cite>— Posted by Charles</cite></p>
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